Hello, the adviser speaking.

Hi, good morning the adviser. It's [name] here from Manchester.

I've just got a message related to my inquiry about the heat source pump installation.

Okay, sir. Sure. How can I help?

I just want to get some update about that. I mean, how does it work and what's the procedure?

I'm looking to get one installed on my property.

Okay, so how it works with us, there is absolutely zero sales operation.

So if you want someone in a flashy Range Rover to turn up in a nice suit and sell you a heat pump, it's not going to be us.

We are heat pump engineers.

We're a small family firm of experts who've been doing this for years and years now compared to most other installers.

So how it works with us, we don't want to waste your time.

We definitely don't want to waste our time.

I'm just going to ask you a few questions.

Okay.

I'm going to give you a price over the phone.

Everybody else can do exactly the same, [name]. They just don't want to.

They want to put a salesman in front of you.

I'm going to give you a price over the phone.

If you like it, great.

We'll go from there.

And then I will come to the house completely for no charge.

I'll do a completely free home assessment.

We're very highly sought after, one, because of our expertise, but two, because of our prices.

We're not going to be the cheapest quote you get, but you don't want the cheapest.

It's your central heating system.

It's not a pair of trainers, but we're definitely not going to be your most expensive.

Basically, we will be able to install probably the best heat pump at the lowest price that you'll get a quote for.

We only want to put quality in.

So, yeah, I'll give you a price.

If you think fair enough, I can do that.

These guys know what they're doing.

If you want me to come and have a look at the house, I'll have a look at the house, and then I will advise from there, [name].

Does that sound fair?

Yeah.

Call for it, please.

Okay.

It says here [postcode].

Is that right?

That's correct.

The postcode, yes.

Just so I can sort of start to build a picture.

Is this for like a recently purchased property, or have you been there for a while?

I've been there for more than 10 years, to be honest.

I'll call it 10 years.

I bought this house 10 years back.

It was a brand new build that time.

Okay.

And is this like a renovation project, or is it just a case of swapping an old gas boiler now for a heat pump?

I just want to swap the old one, because I've seen some of the energy suppliers have been sending me the offer of the government.

I've got grants available for this and that.

Plus, I've got the solar thermal panel installed on my roof.

Okay.

Someone advised me that works more efficiently rather than gas with this system.

Yeah.

And I've got that done three to four years back, full installation.

And I've got a new, whatever you call it, tank.

It's been installed in the loft as well.

The new hot water tank?

That's the one, yes.

They installed it with the-

That'll have to change anyway to be compatible with this pump.

Of course, yeah.

It's included within our price, so it's not an additional cost.

You are [address], is that right?

That's correct, yes.

Is it a flat? No, [address].

It's a semi-detached corner house as well, because I've got sort of two gardens, front and back.

And the side is literally empty as well.

Okay, perfect.

So, just looking at the house, it looks perfect to install a heat pump to.

You know, if it was like 500 square meters and it was 200 years old, I would just tell you now, it's not going to happen.

If you look at our reviews, every single one is five stars.

And that's because if it shouldn't be done, we won't do it, whereas others will do it anyway.

And if it can be done, we install the best materials at a very fair price.

So, just whilst I'm talking about that, [name], we only want to install a heat pump that we know you're going to be happy with.

We want you to save money in your bills, obviously, but we also want to make sure that you're going to be nice and warm.

I know it's hot now, but people forget that it gets cold here.

It's cold, yeah, of course.

It's a cold country, so it's absolutely essential that you install a heat pump that works when it's cold,

because you wouldn't want a gas boiler that doesn't work when it's cold, would you?

It's the same with a heat pump.

So, for that reason, Mitsubishi every day.

Anyone who's got a good air conditioning system's got a Mitsubishi.

Anyone who's got a good heat pump has a Mitsubishi.

If you go to these really cold countries like Norway and Denmark and Sweden, it's nothing but Mitsubishi.

I know, because I'm an electrical engineer myself, so I know about Mitsubishi, yeah.

Yeah, that's what we install, mate.

That's what we install.

The only other people that are still installing Mitsubishi are about £2,000 to £4,000 more expensive than us,

because they're bigger firms.

They've got massive overheads.

They've got sales reps to pay a commission to with us.

Six of us, everyone's on the books.

There's no subcontractors involved, minimal overheads.

I'll give you a price, but is it all radiators, or do you have any underfloor heating?

Just the radiators.

They're not very big-sized, because my house is fairly new, so a heating system works really good in my house.

Did you say the radiators are quite big or quite small?

They're not very big, they're not.

They're fairly small-sized, and all the piping is plastic piping, I believe.

Is it 10ml plastic? It will be, won't it?

That's the one, yes, yeah.

Yeah, okay, no problem.

And is the cylinder in the attic, did you say?

Yes, additional one in the attic, yes.

Okay, no problem.

Right, so we designed the system at 50 degree flow temperature, rather than 65, like you probably have now.

We're probably going to install a system that will save you about 40% on your energy bills overall, [name].

And then, to make sure that you're not saving money or being warm, we might end up changing a few radiators.

Because obviously it's a lower flow temperature, but it's all done at trade price, so don't worry about your costs getting really high.

We want to keep your costs really low.

Other installers will charge you £250 per radiator change.

It's crazy.

We just say, let's say for example, the bedroom one radiator needs changing, and we can find the radiator and the TRV for £70, that's what you'll pay.

I understand.

So what I think you're looking at, I think you're going to need a 6kW.

You could probably get away with the 5kW, but we don't want you to get away with anything.

We want you to be comfortable, if that makes sense.

I think the 8.5kW would be too big, and the heat pump would cycle.

Everything is subject to heat loss.

The best way to get a proper heat loss survey done is to spend a couple of hundred quid with an independent company who specialise in proper heat loss surveys for houses looking to install a heat pump.

You might not get that far.

Obviously I'll give you the price, if you like the price I'll come and look, and then I'll advise whether or not it's worth doing.

There are some companies that are trying to train a salesperson how to do it for free.

But it's not going to work, mate. It's the most important bit.

So your heat loss survey might come back that you need a 5kW or an 8.5kW, so everything is subject to speculation at the moment.

But what I think you're looking at is a 6kW heat pump plus a few radiators at trade price.

So I think after the government grant, which we'll sort completely for you, I think you're looking at £4,250 plus any radiators at trade price.

And, sorry, do you do the filing options? Because other companies do offer you 0%, like you can split the cost you're paying in monthly.

The best thing to do, because you'll end up paying more, we do offer a finance option, and this is what you'll find is the difference between a sales company and a heat pump installer.

We will just advise you what's best for you to spend as little as possible.

If an installer offers you a finance option, I wouldn't take it.

I would look at your own options and do your own research.

Whether that's like a low APR home improvement loan with your bank, or how I did mine, I got a credit card and paid mine interest-free off over a two-year period.

I would do your own research. I wouldn't ever do another installer's finance, because you'll end up paying more than you need to.

To be honest, most of the companies, they do offer you 0% APR. You don't pay any extra on top of that, like Octopus doing EDF.

I've been doing research for a couple of days, so that's how I got your number.

Most of the companies, if you go on the website, because EDF, they offered me the package, 6 kilowatt, 3,800, and they didn't mention any.

They said, we're not changing any radiator. Your radiator will be fine, because of the age of the limit I've explained to them.

They asked me to send some pictures. They do 0% APR. You pay an initial deposit of 600 pounds from your pocket, plus your grant.

I think monthly, it was around 130 or 140. You split it up to two years.

I can't compete with that finance option, but already you're telling me things that are quite worrying.

EDF are just saying, don't worry about your radiators.

You've got a new house, yeah, but I know how new houses are built. It's all little radiators.

This is going to be done at a level of low temperature. There's no way they can just turn around and say, you won't need to change radiators.

You will, and that's a concern.

The difference that you'll find is that companies like Octopus and EDF, who are massive, massive energy companies, they are brilliant with electric tariffs, gas tariffs.

They are brilliant to pay gas and electric to each month, but when it comes to heat pump installations, they are miles off.

They've only been doing it a couple of years, and that's not because they wanted to.

That was because they were told they had to by the government.

The difference with me, EDF and Octopus is that I'm going to put a Mitsubishi in.

EDF are not going to put a Mitsubishi in, and Octopus are not going to put a Mitsubishi in.

They're going to put their own heat pumps in, which are pretty low in efficiency, high running costs, struggle in colder months of the year, but the only thing that they've got over me is that they can offer 0% finance.

Don't make a decision on your central heating system over what's the easiest one to pay for.

You'll end up regretting what you've done. Do you know what I mean?

Do you mind giving me the price plan, the final one, any chance of getting an email so I can compare?

I don't mind paying from the credit card, to be honest, because I do get offered 0% on my credit card as well, so I can pay from there and pay over 18 months or whatever time.

No problem.

The price-wise, I just want to compare all that.

Whatever's the least final you can do, I'll just look into that and then get back to you if that's okay.

No problem. I'll send you an email now, but please, for the love of God, do your own research into the difference between an Octopus heat pump, their cosy range, and a Mitsubishi, and you won't want to put an Octopus heat pump in.

I agree with you 100%. I'm an electrical engineer, I'm a competent Octopus-approved electrician as well on the JIB. I work for KDE.

Myself, we do installation like PV. I've never done this heat pump myself, but we do install like EV, we do solar PVs, but this one obviously is for my house, so I don't want anything in between.

I want the high-spec range for my own house.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, I will definitely look into that, but price-wise, if you can do anything about that, I mean, just do match it with the other one that I've got.

I don't mind paying extra for ADR, as you explained, but just to be sure that I'm paying just right.

No problem.

I'll send you an email.

Thank you very much.

I'd like to thank you, mate.

Lovely. Thanks for that.

Bye-bye.

Take care.

Bye-bye.

Hi, is it [name]?

Hello?

Hi, I was hoping to speak to [name], please.

I'm afraid he's not here at the moment. Who is it, [name]?

So, my name's the adviser. I work for a company called the installer.

It looks like you guys are on oil, and [name] has enquired about maybe coming away from oil and putting a heat pump in.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, he won't be home, love, till about seven o'clock tonight, I'm afraid.

Oh, I'm not going to ring you after then, don't worry.

When's the best time to catch him normally?

He's normally home about, well, he never normally gets home till about half past five, I'm afraid.

I'm just trying to think.

And he drives for a living, so, you know, that's the problem of getting him in the day, do you know what I mean?

Yeah, he's only given me a landline.

It's like he's thought, right, I'll enquire, I'm interested, but I'll let him speak to my wife.

Yeah, well, do you want to make a note of my number?

Because we're, I know it's not all about this, but we're pretty fairly priced,

and you've only got until January whilst the grant's at £9,000, then it's going to come down again.

Yeah.

So, yeah, do you want to take a note of my number?

Is this your number on here that's registered on my phone?

Yes, that's right, yeah.

Yeah, all right, love, I'll get him that. I'll give him that number.

Perfect. Thank you.

All right, then. Thank you.

Bye.

Morning, is it [name]? Yes, speaking. [name], might not be the right time to have this conversation mate, I've just returned from annual leave. My name's the adviser, I work for the installer in [town].

Yes. It was about your heat pump enquiry [name]. Yeah. Is it [address]? It is, yeah. Is that where you are now I'm guessing, well maybe not right now, but where you live in [name]?

Yes, yeah. And I'm guessing, tell me if I'm wrong, that's where you're thinking about maybe installing a heat pump too? Yes.

Okay, it's just about giving you a quick call, seeing if we can help [name]. Have you been in touch with anyone else? Have you had any quotes yet?

Haven't had any quotes, I have been in touch with EDF. Okay, alright, alright. I'm from [town], I call a spade a spade [name], do you mind if I speak frankly with you? Yeah, of course.

Honestly, our biggest competition are the energy companies, EDF, Shell, British Gas, Octopus, they don't want to do heat pumps mate, they've got to. So, basically your house, they will install to exactly the same as they will do every other property they install to.

We are, we're heat pump experts, we've been doing this for about, between us, about 40 years. It will be a completely different experience. Everything's done completely bespoke, rather than sort of one size fits all. In terms of where we are on price, they're also our only real competition for price, but they don't put the same heat pump in.

So, they'll be putting in something like an Ideal, Worcester Bosch, great boilers, terrible heat pumps. So, it depends on what you're looking for. If you're just looking for the cheapest heat pump you can find to put in, they might just about scrape it, but for the sake of a few hundred quid, at most, we put in the Mitsubishi.

It lasts a lot longer, it uses a lot less electric because it's much more efficient. So, if you're wanting to put a decent dent in your bill, with something that they would install, you're probably looking at about spending the same on electric to heat your home and your hot water, as you are with your gas boiler now. If you want to stick about a 40% dent in your bill, then that's going to be me.

What was yours again?

Mitsubishi.

Mitsubishi, and your company?

the installer in [town].

the installer, yeah.

But if it can be done, if the house is right, we will put you a much better heat pump in than most, but because there's no subbing involved, and our office is probably smaller than your kitchen, we haven't got the staff to pay, we haven't got subbies to pay, we haven't got sales people to pay commissions to. Everything is done in-house.

So, if you want the best heat pump at the lowest price, mate, I'll clean up. But it might not be right. So, because we don't have a sales setup here, [name], I'm just going to ask you a few questions. I'm going to give you a price, and if you don't like it, fair enough, we can leave it there. I've not driven miles to come and see you for no reason. You've not waited for me to come and see you for no reason.

No one's wasted no one's time, and you can sort of crack on and continue as you were, if that sounds fair enough.

Yeah, that's fine.

Yeah, my honest advice would be, once you've got your heat pump in, that means to be looking at your energy companies to see who can put you on the best tariff to bring down your electric unit rate further, to help further reduce your bills, but don't put a heat pump in with them. To be honest, the only reason they're doing it is because they've been told they've got to.

Yeah, I can imagine that.

Yeah.

Basically, just for you as well, that you know, basically, I bought this house about 12 years ago.

Yeah.

I've got at the moment an Ideal 32 in it.

Yeah.

Kombi. I've got seven radiators in the house. It's not a big house.

Yeah.

One bathroom, and two people live in it. That's me and my partner, so she's here and I'm here.

Okay.

Basically, I think by what they're all saying, or what they haven't quoted yet, but what they're saying is, you know, what have you got in there? Send us pictures of your radiators, your pipes and everything.

Yeah.

They want to redo the whole thing by the look of it.

They want to redo the what? Start from scratch?

Yeah, I think so, yeah.

Okay. All right.

I don't want to.

Yeah.

And I don't see the need because, you know, it's still in good neat. It's flashing through the system.

Yeah.

And then the water boiler and the pump.

Sorry, it's the adviser. Sorry, mate. Yeah, my kids have just started. I'm working from 10 o'clock and they've just started coming upstairs. But yeah, they want to start from scratch. You'd rather not.

I think they do, yeah. No, there's no need to because the radiators are modern.

Yeah.

They're still good.

Yeah.

Like I say, they probably need a flush through and that's about it. So it's actually the heat pump and the water boiler.

Yeah.

Where I see the cost.

Okay, how it works with us. So, again, I'll give you a price. If you think fair enough, I'll come and do a free home assessment. What happens then? I'll come and have a look, make sure that we'd be happy to take the projects on.

You'll notice where things start getting different. So they will send like a sales rep or they will try and do a calc over the phone just with pictures you've sent them.

It's the most important bit. What you don't want to do is just sort of help that someone's done something properly because it's essentially in system.

So, basically, when I come to see you, I'll either be saying to you, it's worthwhile making your first financial contribution to this or it's not.

The first bit of anything that you'll pay is 200 quid. Not for me to come, but once I've been, I'll advise whether it's worth spending it or not.

That will be in a completely separate entity. We'll come to the house, spend about two hours there, do everything we need them to do and they'll just feed everything back.

Now, at this point, no one else is involved. It's only us. We'll spend a full day running calcs designed to assist them.

Then at that point, we will be able to see if what you've already got is definitely going to be okay with what we're going to do.

Basically, because these things are done at lower flow temperatures, if you've got a radiator in the living room that keeps you warm now, but the lower flow temperature doesn't,

we will just simply produce a radiator schedule saying these radiators are fine, these ones need slightly adjusted, but we're flexible.

If you've just got some radiators and they're fancy and you just show the heat demand, we're not going to make you do something you don't want to do.

We'll just tell you what should be done and then it's up to you from there.

Well, they were all overspec at the time of doing it. I renovated the house myself. I used to be a builder.

I overspec the radiators and then the plumber came in and just put them in and did it all.

They're overspec anyway, so they should be fine. That's by the by.

What about these grants?

We sort it all for you. First of all, just to go back to your ads, if they're all oversized, you should be fine, [name].

Let's say, for example, you've got one that's 600 high by a meter wide and it's capable of hitting 21 degrees at 50 degree flow temperature in a small room that's reasonably well insulated,

then we don't need to change it because it already meets the heat demand.

So you should be OK, [name], even on the off chance that we do need to change maybe one radiator.

You've only got a few. We don't make any money on them because we want to keep your price down.

So if it costs 70 quid for us to slightly upgrade and it becomes a double, for example, that's what you'll pay.

But we might not even get that far. You might not want to. We'll discuss that at the time.

In terms of the grant, again, our process basically is home assessment, heat loss survey, design.

I'll call you, tell you what the final price is. You can either say, the adviser, all right, off you go.

Thanks, but no thanks. But I don't think I don't think it'll come to that.

And then at that point, if you sign your contract, you quote your letter of authority for us to do your DNO application and 25 percent deposit,

we then think like doing it. Let's sort it out. You'll have already received an insurance certificate,

because if the off chance is that your grant's not back, it doesn't happen unless you've had one already.

We send you the deposit straight back. So literally all you would have to do is sign something electronically to confirm that you're a real human being.

We've already done it, [name]. With a lot of other firms, they don't have their own MCS.

So you pay full whack and then eventually you'll get back your seven and a half.

All right. None of that with us. You will only pay the amount, the grant, and we do it all for you, mate.

You're only looking at a little six kilowatt. That's all. That's all I think you'll need.

It's the same one I've got. So Mitsubishi's best heat pumps are probably the six, the eight and a half and the 11.2.

If you put one in that's too small, you won't get one. If you put one in that's too big, it'll cycle and then you're in trouble.

So that's why we bring the third party company to come in to make sure that we get it bang on.

Basically, if you put the six kilowatt Mitsium, you'll get six kilowatts worth of power now.

But more importantly, you'll get it when it's minus 10 degrees outside.

If you put anything else in, normally Shell put, I think they put the Ideal in.

If they put that in, you'll get six kilowatts now.

But you know at Christmas time when you want to be sat in front of the telly watching whatever, it's freezing cold outside.

You get three or four and you need six.

So that's why the Mitsubishi pretty much wins every time.

It's the only one that guarantees you warmth when it's cold and it costs you a lot less to run.

I think in terms of a price, after the government grant, it'll be four and a half.

Then if you need any radiators, which I think you sound like you should be okay with, they've just done a trade price anyway.

So I think if you can just have four or five in your head, that would be the cost what I think to fully install your system.

Okie dokie.

Yeah, that's where most people get us.

I think the best thing to do, [name], unless you think, nah, I'm not paying that.

Again, Shell, they might be four, four, one.

They'll be a little bit cheaper, I imagine, but for something that's not going to work anywhere near as well.

But if you don't want to pay or if you can't pay what I'm quoting, there's no point in me coming to see you.

But I'm in Leicester all the time.

There's a lot of people on oil in certain parts of Leicestershire.

So in terms of whether or not you want me to come, I'm actually there next week.

Let me have a think about it on that info you've given today.

Yeah.

You can ring me back beginning of next week, if you like.

No problem. I'll send you an email now.

So you've got something to look at.

What was your name again?

the adviser.

the adviser.

the adviser.

Yeah.

Perfect.

Thanks, [name].

Take care. Thanks for the info.

Cheers. Bye bye.

Bye bye.

Bye.

Hello?

Can someone speak to [name] Miller?

Milner, yeah.

Oh, sorry, mate.

You say Milner?

M-I-L-N-E-R, is that right?

That's right, mate, yeah.

No, it's you that's bugging it up, mate.

It says Miller.

Oh, no.

Don't worry.

It's all right, [name].

Yeah, just a quick one.

It looks like you might be interested in installing a heat pump somewhere, [name].

Yeah.

It's something I'm looking into, yeah.

Yeah.

Are you on a hotline?

Yeah, I'm on a hotline.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Are you on oil?

I have oil and I have wood burner, yeah.

All right.

Can I speak frank with you, [name]?

Because that's what I do.

I'm from [town].

I call a spade a spade, mate.

So can I say it?

All right.

That's what I'm here, yeah.

Yeah.

Sound.

If you're thinking about doing it, let what the government is incentivising you with sort

of help you make your decision.

Because the urgency isn't from us.

We're not going to try and sell anyone a heat pump, mate.

We're experts.

If it's going to work, we'll do it at a fair price and we'll do it right.

But my honest advice to anyone that's on oil or LPG, the government are giving you £9,000

to do this until January and then it's back at seven and a half.

So if you can find a firm that you like and they put a decent heat pump in and charge

a fair price and you don't think they're a set of muppets, my advice to you, mate, would

be crack on, because if it's going to work in your house, you will do this at some point

anyway.

And this is going to be the cheapest you'll get between now and January.

But you don't want to put any pump in when it's cold.

So yeah, I would be looking at prioritising this because obviously, oil costs have doubled.

They're not great central heating systems anyway, in terms of efficiency, if you put

an heat pump in, it's a much better central heating system, it'll save you a fortune in

your running costs.

And if you do it sooner rather than later, you'll pay as little as possible to do it,

right?

Yeah.

What's as little as possible?

How much is it on top of nine grand?

So our only real competition for price, and this isn't quality, our only competition for

price is Octopus Energy.

They'll probably be about, I'd say maybe 500 quid cheaper than us, but they put their own

heat pump in.

If you're out as old, they might not want it anyway.

Basically they are obviously a massive energy company who aren't doing this because they

want to, but they've now got to.

That's why British Gas and everyone's putting heat pumps in now.

Again, it's not out of choice, but the government is saying you've got to do heat pumps.

They don't really know what they're doing.

A lot of the work is subcontracted, they just have a target to hit.

They're putting in subpar systems, so basically they'll put their own heat pumps in or they'll

put the budget ones in, and as soon as the temperature drops outside to like minus one,

your heat pump will make a racket outside, it can't really cope well with freezing temperatures

and your house struggles to get warm.

You spend about 500 quid more, you've got me.

The six of us, we're a small family firm, we've done this for years.

We don't have no subcontractors involved.

We don't want no one else touching this.

We put Mitsubishi in, with the same heat pumps that you get in Norway, Denmark, Sweden, doesn't

matter whether it's 10 or minus 10 outside, it's not going to make a racket, it's ultra

quiet.

It's high efficiency, so your running costs are right down compared to others, but more

importantly, it works when it's cold.

So it doesn't matter what the outdoor temperature is, this one doesn't lose power.

So how it works with us mate, I don't want to bore you, there's no script, I'll ask a

few questions, I'll give you a price, if you don't like it, fine, let's leave it there.

If you think fair enough, I need to actually make sure, one, it's going to work at your

house, so I'll just come and have a look for free, but we might not even want it.

So it's a case of a full assessment, but yeah mate, let's not waste anyone's time, and then

we'll just go from there.

Pass.

Let's have a quick look, see if I can find you online.

So address [name], Meadow Farm, Silverfields?

Yeah, that's right, yeah.

LS25, 5HU?

Yeah.

Leeds, man.

Yeah, Leeds, yeah.

LS25, 5SU, have I just put that in wrong?

No, 5HU.

Yeah.

5HU.

Meadow Farm, Hill and Common Lane, is that right?

That's right, yeah.

Okay.

181 square metres.

Ah, right, okay.

So it looks like it was, has it been rebuilt, or is it sort of brand new?

It's not very old, yeah.

Yeah, okay.

So just looking at this straight away, it's definitely the right type of house to install

an heat pump to.

It might be decent in size, but obviously it's well insulated.

So what's pipe work?

Is it like 10mm plastic, or have you got 15mm copper?

It's 15mm copper.

It does have some plastic in with heating, some plastic pipes with central heating.

Okay, alright.

It says here that you've got biomass, but just so I've got this right, it's an oil boiler,

and then you know that wood burner?

Yeah.

Is it just a log burner, is it just a secondary source of heat, because sometimes these EPCs

are wrong?

No, what it is, it's actually got the boiler in the back of the wood burner, and it actually

does the central heating as well.

Right, okay.

So it's like a back boiler, the boiler in the back of your log burner.

Yeah.

Is that right?

Yeah, that's right.

It's not biomass though, is it?

It's just a back boiler?

No, it's not a biomass, no.

Yeah, alright.

Sometimes people that do these EPCs, they're there to tick a box.

Alright, because if it were biomass, you wouldn't get any money at all.

But that's fine, that's no problem.

How many rads have you got?

Well, I've got 18 downstairs, and I've got about 8 radiators upstairs I think.

Okay, alright.

So, we might need to change a few rads, but to be honest I can't see it being many, because

it's well insulated.

Yeah.

Obviously these things are done at lower flow temperatures, that's the whole point of it.

That's how you save your money.

But we don't need to save money or be warm, so we'll drop the flow temperature to like

50, it's probably 65 now.

So instead of sending 65 to each rad, we'll send 50.

So what we might do, just to make sure you still get warm, singles might just be doubles.

It's nothing drastic.

So it's literally a case of increasing the surface area of the radiator, just to make

sure that with lower flow the rooms still get just as warm as they do now.

We might need to change a few radiators at trade price, that's what we do.

If you make any money on your rads whatsoever, just want to be fair and reasonable.

So I think what you're looking at is, I reckon you're looking at, let's have a look, 8.5

kilowatts is what you'll probably need.

Well, the only thing that people have said to me about it so far is make sure you don't

have too small a unit, because they reckon it's a bit of a load to them, they're running

too high.

Is that true or not?

Put one in that's too small, you'll not get warm.

If you put one in that's too big, it will cycle.

Hold on two seconds Ryan.

Yeah.

Yeah, if you put one in that's too small, house won't get warm.

Yeah.

Are you there?

Yeah, I'm here pal.

If you put one in that's too small, yeah, there's not enough power getting around the

house.

But if you put one in that's too big, it'll cycle.

So basically how it works with us, I give you the price, and if you think no sod that,

I'll not come and do a freedom assessment.

All right, are you there?

Hello?

200 quid, or not, on an expert coming and spending about three hours at the house.

Yeah.

They'll just take all the measurements, feed everything back to us, then that allows us

to do all your calculations.

We can work it out room by room, see if any radiators need changing, and to what size,

and we can do a whole of house heat loss report.

If the number is, for example, seven kilowatts, we don't want to put a six kilowatt heat pump

in because it's not big enough, but we don't want to put an 11.2 in because it's too big.

You'd put the 8.5, the one above your heat loss.

So there's a lot of companies that cut corners, mate, and then this is the bit that they fall

down on when people get colder houses.

We just make sure it's done right from the start and you can't go wrong.

Right.

So I think 8.5 kilowatt heat pump.

Few radiated changes at trade price.

So it's normally 250 quid a rad change.

We just say if bedroom one rad needs changing and we can find it for 100 quid, that's what

you'll pay.

Right.

I think, what price would be 12,550 plus rad changes?

What if I did 12,550 minus?

I reckon you're looking at three and a half plus radiated changes at trade price.

I wouldn't expect that cost to increase much, pal.

Right.

So you're looking at three and a half plus, let's say four grand.

Say four grand.

I reckon that's a fair shout, yeah.

Yeah.

And what is that based on allowance?

Yeah.

So basically, so it's 12,550 total price plus rad changes, but the government gives you

nine.

So if I take nine off that, it leaves at 3,550 plus your radiated changes.

Right.

And then from January the 1st, it's 12,550 minus seven and a half, not minus nine.

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

And what's the name of your company?

We're the installer.

the installer, right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right.

So I'll put that, I'll write that down.

I promise you, I'll get the quotes and then I'll decide where I'm going to go.

Best thing to do, we always say get a couple of quotes.

Make sure it's for a Mitsubishi, otherwise your house won't get warm, mate.

Simple as that.

Yeah.

And can you tell me, well you should be able to tell me, how much will it use in metric?

Because, I mean, they're not free.

They do use quite a bit of metric, don't they?

Yeah.

Some of them do.

Some of them do.

It all depends on what heat pump you put in.

If you put in some of the crap, you'll probably, like, sort of break even against your oil

running costs that you were paying before, but your house won't get warm.

If you put some of the good in, you'll save about 40% against your old bill.

Yeah.

But you can tell me, like, roughly how much it'll cost, a thousand, two thousand, whatever

a year to run it.

I reckon for about an eight and a half kilowatt heat pump, unless you start being silly and,

like, having the house constantly heated at 21 degrees for all day, every day, I reckon

you're probably saving, I don't know, you might spend 1,500 quid a year running it,

top, absolute tops.

Right.

Right.

Right.

So, yeah, thanks anyway.

So, I'll, uh, I'll...

I'll send you an email and then...

Yeah, send me, I want an email.

Yeah.

Yeah, if you don't mind, yeah.

All right, Pac, will do.

All right then, cheers.

Nice one, really.

Bye-bye.

All right, bye.

Hi, if you record your name and reason for calling, I'll see if this person is available.

the adviser.

Thanks the adviser, please stay on the line.

Hi.

Hi Nancy, it's the adviser.

Oh hi, how are you?

Yeah, we spoke a couple of weeks ago, you took me on a virtual tour of your home and

then you got quite busy and so it was a case of rearranging your home assessment.

I just wanted to give you a quick call just to, obviously I did send you a message with

an option but obviously that was quite a while ago and I've heard nothing from you.

So I was just looking to see if you were still wanting to rearrange Nancy.

I did want to rearrange back then, but now we're thinking about it, my husband and I.

And the thing is, like I said to you, we are really more into cooling down the house than

actually warming the house.

Because we don't really, believe it or not, we don't really use a lot of heat.

At night we cannot sleep with the heat.

We'd rather have cold than heat.

Now, I heard this week on the news there are some proposals about increasing or making

some changes about the air-to-air, I mean the loans that they're giving, you know what

I mean, the support they're giving.

I don't know how long it will take, but we decide that we may going to wait a little

bit longer.

Now, I don't want to waste your time, you know what I mean.

I want you to come around and look at the house, but obviously if there will be some

changes on that air-to-air, we'd rather have that one.

No problem, I'll just leave it with you Nancy, because obviously there'll be people that

do that better than us, so I'll leave that with you Nancy.

Ah, okay, so that's not your...

Okay, I'll go ahead.

There are lots that do, we just don't want to do it, because obviously we specialize

in the heat inside and there are systems that can do both.

We don't really feel comfortable doing it in this country.

What a shame.

Honestly, to be honest, this is the very first time that I have someone that is so nice and

explain everything so nicely like you.

And now that you're saying that, how are we going to do it?

Don't worry, it's absolutely fine.

You need to do what's best for you, so that's fine Nancy, don't worry.

Okay, okay.

If we change that one for some reason, I'll definitely give you a call.

Thank you Nancy, thanks for your time, bye.

Bye-bye.

Hello?

Good afternoon, is it [name]?

It is, yeah.

[name], it's the adviser from the installer in [town].

Alright, how's it going?

I'm good, pal, how are you?

Yeah, not too bad, mate, not too bad.

Good, man. Just a quick one, I don't want to keep you forever.

Yeah.

No one likes talking about heat pumps for long, so I just thought I'd give you a quick call, mate,

just to see what you want to do. It looks like you might want to install a heat pump somewhere.

Yeah. So, I do know a bit about them.

Right.

So, but let me, I know that you can get the grant from the government for seven and a half thousand.

Yeah.

But, and I also know that there could be potentially remedial work that need doing inside the property

to make radiators bigger or get rid of small bar pipe work and stuff like that.

Yeah.

So, I have had a look around the house, yeah. There's no micro bar pipe work in the house, no small bar.

It's 22 carcass with 15 mil winter radiators and all that because about 10 years ago we had the boiler put in.

Okay.

They took the micro bar pipe work out for us.

Okay, sound. So, it's 22 with a boiler, 15 at rad?

Yeah, yeah.

Sound. Okay, that's what you want. So, disturbance will be minimal, mate.

As long as you've got space to put a heat pump somewhere, a cylinder somewhere and any radiator changes that are required.

Normally, we keep the same width and just max singles into doubles anyway.

So, I won't worry too much about remedials in terms of altering the house to get the heat pump to work.

It more so just comes down to suitability of the property.

Yeah, yeah.

Go on, Pam.

So, we've got cavity wall insulation.

Sound.

We've got double glazing and we've got...

The loft was insulated to the standards, but that was a few years back.

Okay.

Don't know what the new current one is.

If you've got anything at all, mate, you sound...

I mean, the government used to say if you didn't have 250 mil, then you'd have to put 250 in or top it up for you to get the seven and a half.

You couldn't get less now, Pam.

Oh, right.

They also used to say if you had cavities but they hadn't been filled, you had to do that before they'd give you seven and a half.

They just want a bit of target now.

So, just having a quick look at your house now, what number is it?

97.

97, Stratford Road?

Yeah.

Okay, let's have a quick look.

Seven attached?

Yeah.

Is yours the one...

So, this is from April 2025.

How long have you been there?

I've been a couple of years now.

All right.

Is yours the white car on the drive?

The one on the right?

Yeah.

Okay.

Sound.

So, has yours got like a conservatory on back or is yours...

Yeah.

Okay.

Conservatory.

So, heat pump will probably go underneath that kitchen window unless you had somewhere else in mind?

No, no.

That's where I was thinking.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's where that'll probably go.

And then hot water cylinder, have you got somewhere in mind for that?

Yeah, it's covered upstairs.

Sound.

Okay.

So, looking at the house, mate, you're probably talking like a six or worse case scenario, eight and a half kilowatt heat pump.

So, it'll be a nice job with minimal disturbance.

Yeah.

Have you done much research into the different manufacturers of heat pumps?

Not a lot, to be honest with you.

I've just been having a look around.

It just seems to be like the market recently seems to be flooded with a lot of cheaper units.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, for example, like, you know, when you're having a look through the internet and everything,

it gets pinged up that you can get a heat pump for, you know, for 1,500 quid, but you've never heard of it before.

It's crap.

Yeah, yeah.

Or you can get a better make, one like a Mitzi or a Dirk.

You see Dirk in, I see their van's knocking about around where we are because they've got a centre on Trafford Park, apparently.

Yeah.

But yeah, I know there's a few different makes that I'm knocking about, yeah.

Well, if you don't mind me speaking frankly, I'm from [town], so I call crap, crap.

Yeah, yeah.

If you want someone to turn up in a Range Rover and try and sell you an heat pump, it's not going to be me, pal.

No.

If you want, like, a heat pump engineer to do a proper helm assessment of the property, tell you whether or not it's worthwhile you moving any further.

And then if you do move any further, put the right kit in at a fair price.

That's going to be me.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, if you've got three quotes, I'm definitely not going to be your chief because I'm not putting crap in.

Yeah.

And I'm not going to be your dearest because we're a small firm.

We're like a family business, there's six of us.

We do everything.

Right.

So, we can put you something like a Mitzi in.

We wouldn't want to put the Deakin in.

It's good air con, but the heat pump drop-off in winter is quite severe.

Right.

And this is an essential heating system.

You want a heat pump that doesn't have a drop-off in winter.

You want it to work well when it's cold.

Yeah.

So, we're going to put a Mitzi in, mate.

It's the only one where it doesn't matter if it gets to minus 10 degrees outside, your power isn't affected.

Yeah, I was just going to ask you that.

What will it go down to?

So, basically, let's say, for example, so our process is this conversation.

I'm going to give you a price, so I don't want to waste your time.

And then if you think, fair enough, I'll come to the house and have a look for free.

We're pretty old school.

I think the reason why we do this properly from day dot is because we don't have any sales reps

who do a little crappy heat loss survey with an app on the phone.

We bring in like a third-party company.

It costs you a couple of hundred quid, but that's the cost to do it right.

It's a completely separate company that will come in, spend about two hours at your house.

They'll measure everything and do everything that we need them to do

so we can design you a system and then come back to you with a final price.

If it comes back that your heat loss, after we've done all the calcs and that,

comes back at 5 kilowatts, we'll put you the 6 in.

Now, if you had a 6-kilowatt MIPSI, it don't matter if it's 10 degrees outside or minus 10,

you'll get 6 kilowatts.

If you put something like a Dakin or an LG or a Samsung, anything else,

they'll either put you a bigger heat pump in than a 6, which will be too big,

and it'll cycle because they know that the drop-off in winter means that it loses power.

So they have oversized their heat pumps, which is terrible for your efficiencies

and your running costs, just to hope that it works when it's cold.

With a MIPSI, you can put the sweet spot in.

Not too big that it's going to cycle and not too little that you're not going to get warm enough

without any drop-off whatsoever, even if it's up to minus 10.

My advice to you, pal, if you're going to do it, do it properly or don't bloody bother.

Yeah, well, that's what I was going to say to you.

I don't want to be looking at doing something that's just going to not be right at certain points.

No, you want to do this once, and you'll be amazed, honestly, pal.

You know the number of people I speak to who say,

oh, no, I want to do it properly, I want to make sure I'm warm.

And then they'll get another quote from someone else of 400 quid cheaper for something like an LGA,

and it's crap.

And then all of a sudden the thought process changes.

We haven't got time a day to be dealing with people who just want to get the cheapest price

because they're just looking at it all wrong.

But like I said, because we're a small firm, we charge a better price.

It's profitable, but we're not asking you to not go on holiday for the next three years.

So, yeah, mate.

We might need to change a few rads at this point, I can't tell you,

because heat loss survey calculations and designs, it's something that we take a long time doing.

But when I say a long time, I dedicate two days to it, specifically on property.

We do every single house on its own merit.

We don't just do these blanket stores like everyone else does.

So I'll give you a cost, mate, and if you think they'll sod that, then I'll not bother coming.

Yeah, yeah.

But if you think, fair enough, I'm not wasting anyone's time,

I'll come and have a look and tell you whether or not it's worth spending 200 quid or not.

Does that sound fair enough?

No, that sounds good, because I've absolutely no idea about how much it's going to be looking at costing.

If it's something that I need to put some money into myself, and if it's doable,

then I'll be honest with you and just say, yeah, let's crack on.

But if I need to save up a little bit of money, I'm just going to turn it on to you and say,

at the moment it's a bit out of my reach, but I am interested.

But let me get back to you when I've saved up some money.

No problem.

I think what you're looking at, I think 6 kilowatts is going to be enough.

I think you're looking at 4,250 plus rad changes at trade price.

Right, right.

Right.

Is that plus that, or is that all?

There isn't none.

There isn't none, mate.

That's all in that.

Right.

Right.

4,200.

Right.

Okay.

And that's including getting the 7.5.

Yeah.

So your price is like 12 something.

Right.

And then because we're MCS accredited, you'll only pay the amount less the voucher.

Yeah.

We do all that for you.

So yeah, the only real competition we've got for price is Octopus.

Right.

They'll be about 400, 500 quid cheaper, but sod that.

I've seen that.

I've seen their heat pumps, and I've read some reviews on them.

I'm not overly impressed.

Do you know what, mate?

You know for energy tariffs, the best people to be with buy a million years.

Yeah.

But for heat pumps, I won't go anywhere near them.

It doesn't even look like an heat pump.

They're really where they can put everything.

The scops are really low on them.

You'll spend a fortune running them, and as soon as it gets to minus one, it's going to

make a great racket outside, but it's not going to keep you warm inside.

Yeah.

These are the ones that shape like an egg, aren't they?

Mackie's bin.

That's what it looks like.

When you leave Mackie's and put your bank, it sounds really impressive, but it's the

best way to explain what it looks like.

Yeah.

If you want to do it like a Mitzi, mate, and you want to do it properly, we'll probably

be your cheapest by about two or three grand, because the others that are doing it are bigger

firms with massive overheads.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

To be honest with you, at the moment, we'll have to put it on hold, you know, because

I'm going to have to get some money together.

I don't want you to come out and waste your time.

No, fair.

For me to turn around and say to you, at the moment, yeah, I need to save up a couple of

grand, but I'm not saying that I don't want to have it done, but we're just going to have

to put it on hold for a bit.

Well, what I'll do is...

The boiler is working, but obviously, we're going to try and future-proof the place a

bit more.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just one quick question then, sorry, before you go, yeah?

Yeah.

Do you have to lose the...

We've got a DFE fire in the front room.

Does that have to go?

No, separate pipe.

Separate pipe, pal.

So, we'll just not cap your gas off.

Right.

So, we'll de-function your boiler, but not cap your gas off.

And then it's the same with...

We're going to see a lot of Chinese and Indian families.

Yeah.

They're not cooking a stir-fry on an induction hob.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah.

They don't want to keep gas.

Same with that.

Yeah.

So, what I'll do, I'll send you an email so you've got something to reference.

Yeah.

By all means, try and get a better price than what I've quoted you, mate.

But if someone...

Yeah.

To be honest with you...

I'll be worried.

I'm not going to look at it because I need to save up before, you know, but I think you've

been honest with me, you know, and you've just, you know, you've not tried to mislead

me with anything.

No.

No, but...

You've not come across as a hard seller or anything, you know?

I've just been dead honest and straightforward with me, which I like.

Yeah.

You know, so when I've got the money together, you know, you will be me.

You know, I will get back in touch with you for definite.

No problem, pal.

If you've got any questions in the meantime, let me know, but otherwise I'll just send

you an email and at least you've got something to look at whilst you save some coins.

Yeah, that's great.

Yeah, thank you.

Thanks for your time, pal.

All right, cheers, buddy.

Thanks.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Hello, the adviser speaking.

Who's that, sorry?

It's the adviser.

Oh, the adviser, I've seen your thing on Facebook and I phoned and obviously I've called him back.

You're based in [town], aren't you? Yorkshire way, aren't you?

Yeah, yes, well, I live in [town], mate, but our office is in [town].

Yeah.

We're still across quite a large area, but not all of the UK. Whereabouts are you, Sean?

Litchfield, Staffordshire.

Yeah, I was there yesterday.

Yeah, that's no problem. That's absolutely fine.

Well, are these heat source pumps, are they for winter and summer?

So, basically, you've got two options. You've got, so basically, the one that's just for winter,

but will obviously still give you hot water all year round, is air to water.

Yeah.

And the one that does heating and cooling is air to air.

If you did air to air, you'd be fine if you lived in like a little two-bed bungalow.

You know, like kitchen, living room, two bedrooms max, because then you'd only need one box outside.

Yeah.

And then you'd be able to get four internal units.

The problem with them is that, one, if your house is bigger, you're going to start to spend a lot of money

because you need more outdoor units and you need more indoor units.

Yeah.

But the big problem that you've got if you go down the air to air system, Sean,

is that they're really good at turning what's like 20, 25 degree heat outside into cool air inside.

Yeah.

But the reason why I wouldn't do that system in this country is that when it gets colder,

they're really poor at turning cold air outside into warm air inside.

Oh, right. So that's what I'm getting at.

I want something that goes off and cold and I can get upstairs as well.

Well, you're probably better off doing, mate, if you want a better central heating system,

you're probably better off doing air to water, coming away from gas or whatever you're on, Sean.

I'm on oil. I'm on oil, I am.

Yeah, don't put air to air. If you're on oil, what I would do if I were you,

I'd make the most of the grant that's now gone up to nine.

So I would put air to water in to replace your central heating system

and then I would just put a completely separate system in afterwards.

That's what I'm thinking.

Just air conditioning.

Yeah, that's what I want, so it's hot and cold.

And I've still got my oil, but obviously I'm taking one from the other,

because, you know, that's how I think it's the best way to get forward.

Why do you want to keep the oil, Sean?

I don't know. I thought it was important that I did.

No, mate.

Okay.

Get rid. So basically, you know, because you're on oil and all this crap that's going off elsewhere in the world,

and oil prices have doubled and whatnot, until January the 1st of next year,

the government are saying that your grant that was originally at seven and a half thousand pounds is now at nine.

But that's only for air to water.

And the only way that they'll give you that nine grand, in fact, a single penny at all,

is if you allow the installer to decommission and remove that old system and replace it with the new one.

You wouldn't want to keep the oil anyway, Sean, to be honest, because it's expensive.

Yeah.

But more importantly, it's very low in efficiency. It's one to one at very best.

If you put an air source heat pump in, come away from oil, take advantage of the nine K.

Yeah.

You're going to spend a lot less putting a new heat pump in than you are replacing oil for oil.

Yeah.

You'll save probably about 60% on your bills.

But instead of it being one to one efficiency, it's one to four, Sean.

Does it make your house more valuable if you do that?

Honestly, mate, now because you're getting closer towards the time where people are going to have to put a heat pump in by law anyway.

So in a few years, anyone on gas or oil, when the boiler packs in, they've got to put a heat pump in.

They can't put the same in.

Oh, OK.

So basically, if you do this now, before that comes in, the average property increase of value is between five to 10%.

Wow.

Honestly, now that I know you're on oil, the best advice I could give you, because we haven't got a sales operation here.

We're heat pump engineers.

If you want someone in a flashy car to turn up with a laptop and sell you an heat pump, it's not going to be us.

If you want someone who calls a spade a spade, who you can trust to install an heat pump that you'll only need put it in once, then we'll win.

There's only six of us.

How much are they?

So basically, let me ask you a few questions, Sean, and let's have a look.

I've got...

I'll tell you what, I'm on a different page now.

Tell me what your postcode is, Sean.

WS for sugar, 138ER. Echo Romeo.

I obviously need to come and have a look at the house, but I'm not going to come if you don't like this price.

There's no point, is there?

Yeah.

What's your first line of address, Sean?

The White House.

The White House.

Found you.

Okay.

So it says here, 207 square metres.

So when was the house built?

Early 1900s, I'd say.

Okay, so is it just solid brick, or have you done anything to insulate it?

It's solid brick, and it's got an extension on, but the extension's not very good at it.

All right, okay. So it says here, 207 square metres. Does that sound about right?

Yeah, I think so, yeah. I'd say so, yeah.

Okay. When was the extension done, can you remember?

I brought it like that.

Oh, okay, so that makes sense. So let me do 207 multiplied by 0.

I reckon your heat loss is going to be about 13 kilowatts, so I think you'll need the 14 kilowatt heat pump.

Yeah.

So we only want to put stuff in that's going to work, Sean, so it's going to be Mitsubishi.

If you put anything else in, as soon as the temperature drops to like minus one, minus two,

you're not going to get 14 kilowatts like you need, you'll probably get like eight.

Yeah.

So it's like choosing to put a heating system in that works in the summer, but not the winter.

Yeah.

I think what you're looking at, is there any underfloor heating, or is it all rads?

It's actually got underfloor heating in the kitchen, a big area, actually.

Okay.

I've got two bathrooms with underfloor heating.

Okay. So basically, let's just have a quick tally up. So living room, how many rads have you got in there?

In the living room, I've got two rads, but they're like the old-fashioned ones, you know what I mean?

Like, because it's an old house, we've made it look, you know, like them cast iron ones.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

In all honesty, they're not very good to be quite honest.

All right. Well, basically, like the process with us is, I give you a price, you either say do one,

or all right, fair enough, come and have a look, because we need to, obviously.

And then we're not surveyors, we're heat pump engineers, but we're not surveyors.

And if this is going to be done properly, if everything goes to plan, when I've seen the house,

I'll just basically tell you whether or not it's worth spending a couple of hundred quid or not

to bring in a completely separate third-party company who specialise in heat loss surveys.

Yeah.

This kind of project. From that, we then take over, no one else is involved now.

Yeah.

So we'll do your heat loss calc, we'll design you the system, and then I get back to you with a final price,

because now we'll definitely know what heat pump you need.

Yeah.

And we'll also know, because we're designing this at a lower flow temperature, what radiators we need to change.

Yeah.

So it's not saving money or being warm.

Yeah.

You'll save about 60% against oil bills now, but we don't want that over sacrificing heat.

Yeah, absolutely.

So that's why we might need to make some radiators a bit bigger, Sean.

Yeah.

We do our ads at trade price, we want to be fair, we want to keep your costs down.

So most companies will say £250, sometimes more, per radiator change.

Yeah.

If in bedroom one a radiator needs changing and we can find it for 120 quid, that's what you'll pay.

Yeah.

I think what you're looking at as a cost...

Just have a quick one.

There we are, mate, I've got it somewhere.

Yeah, I think you will be looking at the 14 kilowatt.

Yeah.

How many people live in the house, Sean?

Well, there's only me and my missus, that's all.

OK, how many bedrooms is there?

So you've got downstairs, you've got like a...

There was like a garage, but that was converted to a room, what do you call it?

Like an annex thing, but connected.

OK.

You've got that room, you've got the living room, you've got the kitchen, but that's got underfloor heating in.

Yeah.

You've got the hallway and like a utility room.

Yeah.

And a downstairs toilet, a little downstairs toilet.

Yeah.

Upstairs you've got a bathroom.

Yeah.

Opposite there's a bedroom with en suite on it, a little bedroom en suite.

Yeah.

Then you've got a bedroom on its own.

Yeah.

The hallway, and then you've got my bedroom and en suite.

OK.

Now that I'm looking at this in front of me here, Sean, I wouldn't be thinking about a system that heats and cools as one system.

Definitely not.

It's too big, it's too old.

I would definitely be thinking about coming off oil, and I would definitely want to get nine grand rather than seven and a half.

And also, I wouldn't want to put a heat pump in the cold.

So this isn't me rushing you this, Sean.

This is me just saying, look, this is what your options are right now.

Yes.

I think what you're looking at as a cost would be £4,400.

Yeah.

Plus any radiator changes at trade price.

OK.

So do you want to come out and see us?

Yeah, mate, definitely.

To be honest, I'm there all the time.

Yeah.

And just so you know where we are in terms of cost, mate, our only competition for price is Octopus.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

But they're not going to want your house anyway because it's more than, like, 30 years old.

But in terms of competition for quality, you're talking, like, Puraflow, Aira.

They put good heat pumps in as well.

They put Mitsubishi in their own systems in.

But their starting price for this kind of house, I've worked for Puraflow, and I've got an Aira brochure in front of me.

Starting price after the grant, even at 9K, it's more going to be, like, £7,500 plus radiator changes.

OK.

It's only because there's six of us.

We're a family firm.

Yeah.

So we can quote as low as we can.

But just looking at my calendar, mate, I'm in.

So how far away from – you're not a million miles away from Birmingham, are you?

No, I'm nearer you.

Well, when you come down the A38, do you know Fradley?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You just turn off at Fradley, the industrial sign.

OK.

You come down Wood End Lane.

I'm literally, like, two and a half miles off the A38.

Well, I'm in Birmingham at half past ten until about half past eleven tomorrow.

And then I can come and see you afterwards.

Or is that a bit too soon?

No, that's all right.

That's all right.

I work up the road.

I've got my own business, and I work just up the road.

So I'll be here, and I can just pull off site.

Well, what I'll do, when I'm done there, I'll stick you in my sat-nav, and I'll give you a call with what time I'm due to arrive.

And then you can just make your plans around that.

Yeah.

Just give me a call when you're done.

Yeah.

And then I'll go and meet you.

No problem.

I'll send you an email, so you've got something to look at.

And then I'll see you tomorrow, sure.

All right, nice one.

Thank you.

Bye-bye.

Cheers, pal.

Bye, mate.

Bye-bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Hello, the adviser speaking.

Oh, er, I'm just thinking about a hateful quote from you, please.

All right, no problem. Have we spoken with you before, Alan?

No, no, I think I did it yesterday, and you've sent me lots of texts this morning.

All right.

Same bit. I want to speak to you.

No problem. Have a quick look.

I've found you, Alan. So you're DN-14-0-YG, is that right?

It is, yes.

Is that what you're thinking about, maybe installing the heat pump, too, Alan?

It is, yes.

OK, all right. So, just so I can start to build a picture, mate,

if you could just do me a favour and help fill in a couple of blanks for me.

Yep.

So you've bought that property and you've lived in it for a while,

or is it quite a recently purchased property?

Been in it for ten years.

OK. And is this sort of part of a big renovation project,

or are you literally just looking at swapping out gas for heat?

No, I've just had solar panels fit to it.

Oh, OK.

It's the next step, isn't it?

Yeah, it is. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, you're on gas at the minute, Alan, is that right?

I am, yes, yeah.

Yeah. It doesn't make sense for you to have anything and put electric, really, does it?

No.

So if you've got a system that's recently been installed

that can now help with the running costs of central heating and hot water,

and you've just got rid of your gas bill,

you're sort of as close to being off good as you can be, really?

Is that the idea, just to minimise bills, obviously?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right. Future-proof the house, add value,

save some money in your energy bills each month.

Does that sound about right?

Yeah, yeah, that's cock on.

Sound. All right, pal.

So just so you can help them, by the sounds of things,

I just want to make sure I'm speaking to you correctly, mate.

So it sounds, and tell me if I'm wrong,

like you've decided that you want to install a heat pump,

you're sort of more so looking for the right firm,

a good heat pump, a fair price.

Does that sound...?

Yes, yes, that's spot on, mate.

I'm just getting quotes at the moment.

I'm definitely going to have it done.

Just who and what?

Just in case I find the right person to do it.

All right, OK.

Do you mind if I speak frankly with you, because that's what I do?

No, no.

OK.

If you want someone to turn up to your house

and try and sell you a heat pump in a Land Rover

with a nice suit on and a posh laptop,

it's not us, mate.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, well, I don't want that, mate, to be fair.

OK, all right.

If you want someone who will do this once and do it properly,

use the right materials,

and actually knows what they're doing,

then compared to most of the people that you'll have in front of you,

that would be us.

So we're a small family firm.

There's six of us.

We've been doing this for years.

So we're quite highly sought after.

We spend a lot of time in parts of the country

that, to be honest, we don't really want to be spending time in,

because we are capable of installing to properties

that a lot of other installers just won't touch.

But naturally, we can install what we would class as the premium systems

for what we would like to think is a fair price.

So how it works with us, I'm just going to ask a few questions.

I don't want to waste your time, Alan.

No problem, mate.

I'll give you a price.

You can either think, fair enough, come and have a look,

and I'll have a look at the house,

or we don't get that far because you think my price is crap.

But it just makes sense to do it this way round, doesn't it, mate?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good, thanks.

All right. Let's have a quick look then.

What have you got at the minute? Is it a combi or a system?

It's a system.

Okay. Where's your hot water cylinder now?

Is it just like an airing cupboard upstairs?

Yeah, it's an airing cupboard upstairs, yeah.

Okay.

So you should have an EPC.

You might have one now, but it's not in the world.

So just remind me, mate, D and 14...

0YG.

Oh, that it's number 40?

40, yeah, 4-0.

What challenges do you have to deal with

on the current window?

Only advice I'll give to you,

because you might not go with us still, obviously,

don't be getting quotes from, like, energy companies.

No.

So, you know, like, British Gas, EBS, Shell,

don't be getting quotes from them, mate,

because they don't know what they're doing.

No.

They're doing it because they've got to, not because they want to.

They put really budget systems in.

What you want to make sure of is that you put an heat pump in.

I know this sounds so obvious, but you know what?

It's boiling outside now.

We don't need it now.

We need this in November, December, January, February.

Obviously, we need hot water all year round.

Of course we don't.

But your central heating system isn't tested

on how well it performs in a chuffing heatwave.

It's how well it performs in winter

and how well it keeps the house warm.

Realistically, most installers are now pushing

cheaper alternatives at cheaper prices

because they just want a job.

But they'll sell you a heat pump when, actually, in reality,

the second the temperature drops to, like, minus one outside,

the heat pump power just decimates and you're buggered.

It'll make a great racket outside,

but it just can't deal with colder temperatures.

So make sure any competitive quotes,

if it's something like a Mitsubishi

or, at worst case scenario, a Valium,

it's got to be one of them two.

But you're looking at your house, mate.

It's a brand-new house.

Well, maybe not brand-new, but...

It's ten years old. I bought it brand-new.

You're only going to need a little heat pump.

So everything's subject to heat loss.

And we might not get that far,

but just based on heat pump engineering knowledge and experience,

I think... Have you extended the property, Alan, or...?

I have, yeah. I've put a little orangery on the back.

Four metres by three metres.

OK, so 12 square metres plus what it's noted as is 97.

So let's just call it 110, 115 square metres.

This is just what we can go on for now.

Even if I did 110 multiplied

by U-value of CAV wall filled,

it's a heat loss of less than five kilowatts.

But actually it'll probably be a bit better than that

because it's better than CAV wall filled.

It's better building regs.

So I think someone will probably try and squeeze in like a five,

but you're better off putting in like a six.

You don't want to oversize massively.

But if you put like a six kilowatt in,

I think that'd be bang on, Alan.

Yeah.

The difference between...

I'll just tell you now, we'd want to put a MITSI in.

If you put a MITSI six kilowatt in,

you'll get six kilowatts worth of power in June,

but more importantly, it could be minus 10 degrees outside, Alan,

and you'll still get the full six kilowatts.

That's why we want you to have it,

because we know you'll never be cold.

Naturally, it comes with much lower running costs anyway.

It's just a better heat pump.

If you go to Norway, Denmark, Sweden, it's all MITSI.

They've just cracked it.

If you put anything else in, you'll get six kilowatts now,

but when you need it, in the middle of December,

you might get like four, but you need six.

So that's when the heat pump starts to make a racket,

and you notice that your bills go up,

but the house doesn't get as warm.

So I think six kilowatt is what you're looking at.

Have you got any underfloor heating, or is it just rads?

No, just rads.

And I'm guessing, is it 10 mil plastic, or is it all 15 mil copper?

No, it's micro bath.

Is it 10 mil plastic?

Yeah, it will be 108 mil plastic for about 30 years now.

Yeah.

Yeah, it will be 10 mil plastic, which is fine.

That's no problem.

You've obviously got space for a hot water cylinder,

because you've got one now, so that's fine.

It's a detached property,

so you'll have space for a heat pump somewhere.

Yeah.

So naturally, the only reason why this wouldn't work is if your house

were like 300 years old and didn't have any insulation in it,

but it's quite obvious to see that a heat pump would more than work

at your house.

So I'll give you a price.

If you think sod that, I'll not come and have a look.

But if you think fair enough, I'll just do a free home assessment.

And we're quite big believers in old school is best.

Yeah.

You get a lot of firms now that are sending like commission-only sales

reps who were selling cars six months ago.

They can sell, but they don't know about heat pumps.

They'll do like a 10-minute heat loss survey on an app on the phone.

It's never going to work.

It's the most important bit.

The best thing to do is to pay a bit of money to get it done properly.

Bring in a third-party company.

It costs 200 quid, and then they'll spend about two hours at your house

making sure it's done right.

We might not get that far, though.

So for now, what I think you're looking at as a cost,

we do rads at trade price.

We might need to change some, but maybe not all of them

because obviously it's well-insulated.

I think what you're looking at is 4550 plus rads at trade price.

All right.

Yeah, yeah.

That's ballpark, our thinking, to be honest with you, mate.

Yeah.

The only people really that are cheaper than us are Octopus

and their heat pump is crap.

Do you know what I mean?

There are other people that are putting mixes in,

but they're, like, big firms,

and they've got massive office spaces to pay for each month

and a lot of subcontracting involved,

so naturally you can pay, like, 8 grand with some firms for a mix.

But with us, I think you're looking at 4550 plus rad changes.

I think the best thing to do,

obviously that heat loss survey is the most important bit,

but I'd rather come to the house,

have a look at it.

You might decide that you want us,

but we might decide we don't want you.

That's how we work.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, it just depends how much effort is done, to be honest.

If you look at our reviews, every single one is five stars,

and that's because we call a spade a spade.

If it shouldn't be done, we're not going to do it.

I've got to be honest with you, that's why I've been in touch with you,

because of the reviews.

Yeah, and if it should be, if it can be done,

we'll do it right and we'll do it properly

and we'll do it at a fair price.

But I reckon, Alan,

just looking at my calendar now,

I'm pretty free this week.

We were off last week,

so I've not been speaking to no-one to get out and see them.

Right.

Let's have a look.

Well, I'm on nights tomorrow and today,

and tonight and tomorrow night.

OK.

So, if it's any time after 12-1,

this week would be fine.

OK, let's have a look.

If that's available for you.

Whereabouts is... Hang on, let's have a quick look.

Because Dejan's a massive postcode, isn't he?

Yeah, I'm near Selby.

Right, I've just come from there on Friday.

I can come and see you.

Let's have a look.

I can come and see... If I came to see you,

I'm in Derby on Thursday,

11-12.

I can come straight to you from there.

So, probably arrival may be about, I don't know, half one.

Yeah, yeah, that'd be fine, that, mate.

I'll send you an email now, Alan,

so you've got something to look at.

I'll send the MIPSI product specs across,

so you can have a look at that.

Feel free to do all your own research in the world.

If you've got any questions before I come

and see you on Thursday,

just send me an email, whatever you want, Pam.

Yeah.

But, yeah, I'll send you an email now.

I'll see you on Thursday, unless I speak to you before.

All right, then, buddy.

Nice, Alan. See you soon, mate.

Thanks a lot. Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Hello?

John?

It is.

John, it's the adviser from the installer in [town].

Hi, how are you doing, mate?

I'm good, thank you.

How are you, John?

Yeah, good, thanks.

Good, mate.

Just a quick one.

First of all, thanks.

The website inquiry that we've come through, normally it's just, want a heat pump.

You've helped me out a little bit more than most do, John, so thanks for that, mate.

It looks like you're already quite far on with all this, John.

Yeah, I've had some quotes.

the adviser being blunt, and I'm just, I kind of think I know what I want.

I'm trying to QA and make sure that I'm not missing anything.

There's not a better option for me either from a system design or price point of view.

This isn't a race to the bottom exercise.

I'm not trying to shave pennies off a system.

I've spent quite a lot of time thinking about and reading about and talking to my Claude

about what we should be doing here.

Your adverts came up on Facebook two or three times, and I thought I'll reach out and just,

even if it's just, this is what I would do without seeing the property, starting point

of it, I don't want to waste people's time if it's not going to be something that's going

to move us forward.

I'm fine with that.

If it is, I'm happy to either pay for a survey or have a survey done, whatever, however you

operate.

Okay, well, I think we'll get on, John, because we haven't got no time to waste, and we don't

want to waste yours either.

If you want some flashy salesman in a Range Rover to turn up at your house with a laptop

in a suit, then it's not going to be us.

I've had one of those, and he didn't get very far, I have to say.

I'll set up here, John.

There's six of us.

We're a family firm.

Collectively, we've been in the industry probably for the best part of 40, 45 years as a unit.

We do this completely differently to how other installers will.

What you'll find is that whilst we don't have a sales operation, we're all heat pump engineers

by trade.

We will call a spade a spade.

If we don't want it, we'll tell you.

If it can be done, but we're either going to make a mess of your house, or we're not

entirely happy with how it can be done, we're going to tell you.

In terms of where we sit for price, if you've got three quotes, we'd probably be your middle

one.

Right.

Because we don't have any subcontractors involved in this process whatsoever, our office is

probably smaller than your kitchen.

Our overheads are minimal, so we can't put what we would refer to as a premium system

in for a fair price.

I've got no interest in an octopus or a British gas install, and then just chucking something

in that is the cheapest, zero-disrupt way of doing it.

I'd rather spend the money and get something that's going to work, that's going to be right.

My biggest fear in this project is we get to winter, and Mrs. Best is going, it's cold,

I'm not happy.

Yeah.

I want it right.

It's for that reason that we can install quite a few.

In terms of capability, we can install Samsung, Dakin, LG, Valent, but to be honest, we only

really want to put the one in that we know is going to give the best results.

For us, the best results aren't savings, they come hand-in-hand anyway, but warmth

in freezing temperatures, I'm not talking minus one, minus two, I'm talking minus seven,

eight, nine, and ten, because ultimately we could get there.

If you put a Mitsubishi in, just looking at what you've referenced on your notes so far,

it looks like your heat loss at minus 1.9 degrees outside is just over 12 kilowatts?

Yeah.

There or thereabouts?

Yeah.

Because obviously, we would do our own heat loss calculation anyway, sorry if you can

hear the kids, I'm working from home today, so they're running riot, but whilst we would

do our own heat loss survey, the Mitsubishi range goes from five all the way up to 14.

If your heat loss isn't around 12 kilowatts, you're quite restricted anyway, because most

heat pumps sort of max at 12, so I think you're definitely looking at one of the bigger units,

such as the Mitsubishi 14.

The reason why we like that one, if it's 20 degrees outside in the middle of June, you'll

get 14 kilowatts, but more importantly, if it's minus 10 in the middle of November, you'll

get 14 kilowatts.

And the other heat pump, you'll get the power now, but when you need all of it, you'll probably

get two thirds of it, because pretty much every other heat pump has a drop-off, so that's

why we like the Mitsubishi.

Obviously, we'd need to come and have a look, but the heat loss survey, it does cost, it's

200 quid.

We bring in a third-party company for it, but I'm going to come and have a look first,

make sure that we would advise in that direction before anything else, but before that, I'll

give you a price, because I'm not going to drive all the way to come and see you if you

think so bad.

I know I've said I'm not paying nothing, but...

No, no, I'd much rather work that way and go, well, outside where I'm willing to be

on it, or that's there or thereabouts, let's talk further.

In terms of the Mitsubishi, one of the things that I've probably been over-concerned by

in stuff I've read online is an oversized heat pump cycling, does it modulate down to

the lower wattages?

Yes, it does, yes, so for example, if you put that 6 kilowatt in, that modulates all

the way up to 6.7 and modulates all the way down to 5.2.

If you put the 8.5 in, that modulates up to, I think, 8.9 and modulates down to 7.4,

and it's the same with their 11.2 and their 14 kilowatt module.

So whilst I'm saying 14 kilowatts now, that's only based on what I'm seeing in front of

me, as to what you've been told so far.

If you like pricing, and if I come to the house, and if I then say, let's spend a couple

of hundred quid and bring in the experts to do a proper heat loss survey, we will then

design this completely bespoke to your house, and we will run the heat loss calculations

first of all to see what radiators need changing, it looks like six have been suggested so far,

but just as importantly, if not more, the end product, the end result will come out

with a number of, I don't know, 11.2, in which case that modulates up, so you'd probably

have the 11.2 kilowatt, or if it comes back that your heat loss is a little bit less,

you'll still be fine with 11.2, basically it depends where you fall, and how far the

heat pump modulates down, as to which one would be best suited to your house, and that's

something we'd run by you, because you're right, we don't want you to have a heat pump

too small, and we don't want to recycle it, so it's about getting it spot on, let's have a look,

300 and, go on, sorry John, I've got a pdf that I've done with a lidar on my phone, and

a laser measure of all of the windows, all of the rooms, and what radiators are in there,

I can send that over if it helps you coming up with an initial, is it worth me coming

out figure? To be honest, I can do that anyway, I can do that anyway, I'm pretty good at this,

I've done this for a while, every now and then I look silly, but I'm normally pretty

good at this, so just based on what I can see in front of me, if we were quoting for

the 14 kilowatt Mitsu, with, on a like for like basis, if I said with a 300 litre cylinder,

and 6 radiator changes, obviously this might change, but if I just gave you what you've

priced up so far, I think what you're looking at is, so top end, for the 14 kilowatt, it

would be £13,900 minus £9,000, plus any radiators at trade price, so we don't make

any money on your ads, we want to keep your costs down, so instead of saying 200 quid

per radiator, if kitchen radiator needs changing and we can find it for 100 quid, that's what

we do, so having mine £4,900 plus radiator changes, if it was to be the 14 kilowatt,

I have got about 500 quid to play with, obviously so that could come down, I just need to see

the project first, and then if it was to be the 11.2, if it was to be the 11.2, you're

looking at, sorry, it's absolutely chaotic here, 11.2, you'd be looking at, right, it's

quite a big step down, so I've come up to a grand innit, so worst case scenario, for

the 11.2, you're looking at £4,000 plus rad changes, and again, I've got that 500 quid

for Leeroom, it's just an offer that we've got on at the moment, I can't give it to every

house because I don't know what works until just yet, but if you can have in your head,

£4,000 top end for the 11.2, three and a half bottom, plus rad changes, and for the 14,

it's £4,900 top end, plus rad changes, £4,400 bottom.

John, I've sort of put that down, just out of curiosity, I'm just always interested to

know where we sit, because obviously you're in York, or certainly that sort of postcode

area.

Yeah, between Selby and York.

Yeah, who's quoted you so far, if you don't mind me asking, because it's not going to

be an octopus or a British gas, that's quite obvious that you've not gone down that direction.

So, the one I've spoken to most is a company in Selby called Busy Bee.

I've not heard of them, yeah.

No, I mean, to be fair, he's been reasonable, and I'm not going to say it's, this is sort

of due diligence on what he said, asking some questions to somebody else, and then making

a decision, he's kind of done that with it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

They say the bit that I'm slightly, so the heat pump that they've gone with is bigger

than either of the two that you've said, but it's one, it's the Grant.

I know what you mean, it's like a commercial thing, isn't it, it's massive.

Yeah, it's a double height one, and it's, but it'll modulate all the way down to three,

four kilowatts, so it doesn't have to run at full beams when you don't need it.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's what I was, it's something that stuck into my head of going, well, how, you

know, how, how accurate does the heat loss need to be if you just can stick a big heat

pump in and let it run at the wattage it wants to, so, but then you're paying for a big unit

that might only be needed five times a year.

I don't install these things, I'm sort of in the, in the hands of experts who are always

going to take things their way they work, so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's tricky, it's tricky.

In terms of price, you're below where he is.

Yeah, it's not our priority really, but yeah, okay, that's interesting to know.

But it means, I'm happy to continue a conversation, you come out and look at the property and

there's some, there's some intricacies in it, I can't quite put the heat pump in the

optimal place, so there's probably some extra copper run that you, you might want to add

on to it, so if you're happy to come over, have a look and we'll talk.

Absolutely, it's no problem at all, we've, to be honest, we've had the opportunity and

we've been approached by installers, because we are quite highly sought after, and we get

approached quite often by different heat pump manufacturers.

Some of them we will trial, but the grant is one that we have been approached by, the

reason why we rejected the grant was the drop off.

Quite often, the reason why these big massive systems are installed that can modulate down,

because they need to oversize them anyway, because of the drop off, so you are likely

to cycle, even in the warmer months, but anyway, I'm just looking at my calendar now.

I can actually come and see you as early as this Friday, if that would be any good to

you?

Providing it's morning, I can make that work, we're off to London, sort of three o'clock,

so.

Well, I can come and see you, if I said, like, arrival between nine and ten on Friday?

Yeah, perfect, I can do that.

I'll send you an email now, John, so you've got something in writing,

and then feel free to get back to me with any questions before Friday, unless I speak

to you before, I'll see you then.

All right, love the night, thanks for the call.

Thanks for your time, John, cheers.

Cheers.

Hi it's [name]. Hi [name] it's the adviser from the installer in [town]. Hiya mate, can

we do a call? I'm just in the middle of doing something. When do you want me to call you

pal? Erm, what time are we on? 20 past 9. I would say about 12 o'clock mate, that'll

do me. I'll tell you, I might be with a customer, I'll tell you what I'll do, I'll text you

when I'm free, because I will be with a customer later, and then you can just give us a bell

when you're ready [name]. Yeah, alright. Alright pal, speak to you soon. Cheers mate, bye bye.

Ta-ra mate.

I just want to know like two days back I won't I put my contact details that I'm

interested to install the heat pump. Oh okay so yeah sure okay let me see if I

can find what's your name sir sorry it's a VAMS V A M S V A M S okay let me see if I

can find yep I've found you [address] that's right yes is that where you

live now sir yeah okay have you lived there for a while or? I recently moved

there. Recently moved okay and is it just a case of sort of swapping an older

system for a new one or is it just put up there? This complete gas one I need to change it because I've got a solar

system in the place I want to go for green so I want to remove the gas and I

want to go for air source heat pump. Okay no no problem absolutely fine have you

had any other quotes sir? I do I do I had a quote from EON next and British

Gas okay the problem with them is they I want to keep I don't want to pay the

extra money for my cylinder my cylinder is there I've got a cylinder. Well to be

honest just so you know our price isn't going to go up it's not going to come down but

your cylinder has to change it'll be the same with everybody. Oh the cylinder

have to be changed then. So basically just so you know the reason why so is it

solar thermal or is it just a normal sort of standard system boiler does it

do you said does it do your solar hot water as well? No no it's not solar hot

water it's normal normal gas ones. Okay so basically you know because these

things are done at lower flow temperature what you'll have found so

far by the way EON and British Gas yeah they don't want to do heat pumps they

want to do gas the reason why they're doing heat pumps is because they have to

the government are telling them that as Briggs gas suppliers yeah they now want

them to do heat pumps so you won't have spoken to an expert you'll have spoken

to maybe just an initial face and then a salesperson we are heat pump experts

we've been doing this for about 40 years so it will be a completely different

experience speaking to me as we'll be speaking to British Gas, Octopus, EDF, Shell

all of them so what we what you'll find is that we install better heat pumps

that produce higher efficiencies that will produce much lower running costs

and will work for better with solar. What brand you prefer? Which brand you recommend to me then?

Mitsubishi every day of the week. Oh so it's better than violin then? Yes yeah

the difference between the two so that they are both easy to look after they

are both easy to source parts for they are both really easy to control the only

real difference is if you put a valent in yeah you would have to slightly

oversize the system because when it gets to sort of the middle of winter and it

gets really cold outside the valent doesn't cope as well as the Mitsubishi

does with freezing temperatures so if you put for example if your heat loss is

five kilowatts yeah you would put the six kilowatt Mitsubishi in and then the

six kilowatt Mitsubishi would hold its power even if it's minus 10 degrees

outside but they are recommended like 12 kilowatts and dual fan system of

violin just just an example I was using okay yeah so if you say but let's go

that big then so let's say for example you put the 11.2 kilowatt Mitsubishi in

yeah you will get 11 point which is a single fan it's not as big you will

actually get just as much if not more power than the 12 kilowatt valent okay

more importantly it will hold all of that power even if it's minus 10 degrees

with the valent if you put their 12 kilowatt heat pump in it needs planning

permission because it's so big yeah but also you won't get 12 kilowatts in the

middle of winter you'll probably get like nine because the power drops when

it gets colder outside so if you want a system basically that you know you're

going to be happy with that will give you lower running costs higher

efficiencies and the best protection and against the cold we can install both

but we want you to have the best so we would recommend Mitsubishi which is

better than something and absolutely so we could install some media eback

Valen Mitsubishi Panasonic beings we won't ever install a day Kim because

they're just that they're fine yeah I'm like brand new houses that are like two

bedrooms but the big older properties never we wouldn't do it

Samsung recommend must must appreciate you got to a kilowatts in the

Mitsubishi so basically with Mitsubishi their pump size starts from 5 kilowatt

so there's a 5 kilowatt there's 6 8.5 11.2 and 14 I'm just gonna have a quick

look what number Wilson Road are you 168 168 okay I found you so it says here a

178 square meters cavity wall insulated so what I think you're looking at we

need to do a proper heat loss survey we might not get that far but again I've

been doing this for so long now as an engineer I can tell you what it no no

you can give me the rough fries and all that yeah are you wasting your time I

don't want to we don't have a sales operation so I give you a price and if

you like it great if you don't we'll leave it there that sounds good that

sounds good for me as well so I think if I did the size of the property

multiplied by the u-value of cavity wall filled see this is what I mean I thought

this would be the case so your heat loss to me looks as though it's about eight

kilowatts okay so but the reason why they're suggesting the 12 kilowatt

double fan valent is because they have to oversize it because of when it drops

off in the winter but if you oversize a heat pump too much it will cycle and all

of the excess energy goes back to the heat pump and it'll like turn itself on

and off and that's what you want to avoid so basically if you put one in

that's too small the house won't get warm if you put one in that's too big

you have probably still won't get warm because the heat pump will just

continuously cycle so it's really important that you find that sweet spot

if your heat loss is eight kilowatts put the 8.5 in that's the perfect heat

pump if you went up to like 12 the Eon what they did they done the heat survey

they said like it will be like 10.5 is your heat loss yeah okay we recommend 12

12 watts of the dual fan that will support you but the problem comes to me

was I refused them is they this is quite high this double dual fan while it is

quite high it's 1.4 meters and so yeah 1.4 meters they I told them to install

in one place they are saying we can't install because your window access is

stopping I said to them that's fine it's my problem then they said no no no we

can't install there we got restrictions for the pump I can't block any access of

your window on that basis I have to withdraw the application right so you

won't have that problem with the Mitsubishi so it's just over a meter in

height right but to be honest there's other problems so you know with the

valent it's a different refrigerant and it's an LPG refrigerant which means that

if there is a leak the the LPG is heavier than air so it will gather in

dangerous spaces the Mitsubishi they offer two different refrigerants so we

will be far more flexible is it the one which is the latest one is R290

is the latest one but I wouldn't do that yet but the better one is the one that

is used more often R32 that's the better one yeah definitely I have the choice

because basically my heat loss meant I could have had a 6 kilowatt R32 or a 6

kilowatt R290 for the same price I would never put an R290 unless someone told me

I had no choice the R32 is a better heat pump.

I don't know you you're more expert and more practical knowledge you got it but

I just when I was reviewing its R290 is the latest one it get more

performance and all that stuff so that's not there no no so basically the problem

with the R290 is it's a newer technology the reason why the R290

being the only one that you can install keeps getting pushed back and pushed

back and pushed back this is far more problems of it than there is the R32 the

efficiencies are similar but there are far more calls out to recall outs to

repair R290s so yeah I just we'll do that if we get that far we'll do the

heat loss survey and we'll just tell you what's best okay with the system with

the what you're thinking like it could be a 8 kilowatt what you're

saying yeah I think 8.5 or absolute worst case scenario 11.2 but even if

it's the 11.2 it's still a single fan unit okay so you don't have a dual fan

unit in the Mitsubishi then? The 14 is but 14 is gonna be way too big yeah

yeah that'll be way too big I think 12 is too big. There will be any difference in the

dual fan and the single fan? No no no no so basically the every heat pump

manufacturer even the best ones have some heat pumps that are better than

others so like for example the Mitsubishi 5 kilowatt and the Mitsubishi

14 kilowatt aren't ultra quiet whereas the 6, the 8.5 and the 11.2 are and the

scope ratings on the 5 kilowatt and the 14 are lower than the 6, 8 and a half

and 11.2 I definitely don't think you'll need the 14 I think you'll need

either the 8.5 or absolute worst case scenario 11.2. Okay if we go for 11.2 for

example with the tank included yeah the Mitsubishi tank 250 liters? If that's

what you need how many people live in the house? We are we are six five people

now, four of us, two children. Yeah so you'd have the 250 I'd have thought so 250

liter cylinder. Mitsubishi cylinder that is all? So basically it's we don't

necessarily because we want to use the one that gives you the best warranty if

you use the Mitsubishi specific you are slightly restricted we we I'll show

you some pictures we use the best top water cylinders that there is with the

best warranties and it's no different it just costs you less to install so yeah

I'll show you some pictures. Okay so the one which I got did the heat the heat

cylinder on the top of the loft yeah that's not good enough then? No no

because basically. They recently replaced with the new cylinder with the

two or three hundred liters one. Yeah it's because if you have a gas boiler

like you have yeah the flow temperature is 65 degrees if you have an air source

heat pump yeah the flow temperature is 50 degrees so that means that the two

coils down at the bottom of your hot water cylinder that you have now won't

capable of giving you instant hot water if you don't change it for a cylinder

that has two giant swing coils that run from top to bottom. Right. Have you got

any underfloor heating or is it all radiators? No no all radiators, 17 radiators.

17 so how it works with us we're definitely not going to change every

radiator we're definitely not going to change zero radiators. Two radiators which

doesn't support the heat pump that's what they said E.ON one. So E.ON has said

that you need two radiator changes? Yeah they said they're going to replace and

it's covered included in the installation. Okay. Everybody is different

and every company is different so. Yeah I think what you're looking at as a

price yeah I think you're looking at five thousand two hundred and fifty

pounds plus radiators at trade price. Okay is that after taking the government

grant? Yeah after the grant yeah that's right. Okay so the pump itself is

probably seven grand then seven eight grand then yeah? The pump itself is

like five and then your hot water cylinder is like three so we're already

eight and then that's not even half of the material that's involved in the

installation. Okay so you can install that on the loft on the top? Yes we can

so yeah. Okay okay but we E.ON and they got too many restrictions here they're

not letting they're not listening to you like you're telling them they say no no

we just follow procedure they say. Do you know why that is? So you know E.ON

Octopus Shell they don't have the skill set so basically I know that sounds

really harsh but they don't want to be doing this they are doing this because

they are being told they have to. So they will label six seven restrictions I

can't install this we can't go pipework there we can't be putting cylinder here

I said you know what I don't want any installation from you I'll cancel the

application. Yeah we are heat pump experts we do every single house

completely different to the next whereas they all have the same standard model of

installation and if you don't like it they can't care less they'll just

they'll just find one that fits with their model they what they really want

is a brand new house where they're taking the boiler out and putting a heat

pump on the other side of the wall that's what they want. Yeah but they got

too many restrictions they doesn't they don't want you to listen and they will

not listen to you they'll do what they need to do yes the problem that's where

I got a difference like they want to install in one place I said you can't I

don't want to install in that place they said okay we can't do that then I said

okay that's fine no problem. I can guarantee you that we will be able to

install your heat pump where you want where you want it and we will be able to

put your cylinder where you want it because we want to do what you want to

do as long as it's going to work. Because you know what you're doing. We know what we're

doing there's no subcontracting involved we do it we don't let anyone else touch

this we do it all. So you provide any warranty and the cover everything like

five years or two years. There's a two year workmanship warranty yeah and then it's a

10 year Mitsubishi air source heat pump warranty and then it's 25 year hot

water cylinder warranty. So what would be the time it does take you to two

days or three days or four days? Two days maximum. Oh two days you'll complete fit

and everything then? Yeah. Okay so it probably come roughly about

£5,000 to £5,500 then? I think what you're looking at is £5,250 and then if we need to

change any radiators we make no money on your radiators at all because we don't

want this to get away from you. Do you know what I mean? We want to make this

possible so if we do our heat loss survey and two radiators need changing

and the cost to source those radiators is £200 then you'll pay

less than a five and a half grand. If we need to change ten radiators and

they're under a hundred quid each it'll cost you like £6,250 but I don't think you'll

need as many as that changing. No no I need only two radiators. He told me

you need to change two radiators. Yeah. Then two are in the bathrooms which are

not suitable for the heat pump that's what he said. Yeah well yeah I mean I

think what the best thing to do I will come and have a look I'm not going to do

a heat loss survey I will just come and have a look. Where are you located? I'm in

Chesterfield so I'm in Staffordshire quite a bit. Okay okay. Yeah you're

about an hour and 20 away from me which is fine. I'll probably travel

about an extra hour past you and then it gets to the point where it's a bit silly.

You can come when something is around nearby my house to normally you're quite

busy people and like if there's something around my house you can come

and have a look and give me a right quotation and right value. Okay I am in

let's have a quick look well actually yeah yeah if you like if you give me the

heads up so I can make the my time availability so then we can. What day is

normally best for you? Any day for me after three o'clock. Okay how about if I

said Monday next week yeah if I if I said just arrival between three and

four. That suits me yeah. I'll send you an email now so you can see and

reference if you've got any questions before Monday you can get back to me but

I'll send you everything over that we've discussed I'll put the prices on

there I'll put product brochures on there okay and then yeah I'll see you on

Monday. Okay so what about the money like or you do finance as well? We don't

because we have to ask you for more money but the best thing to do do your

own research how I paid for mine on like a two years interest-free credit card or

some people will get home improvement loans at really low APR rates it's very

rare you'll get offered not percent finance but I would always choose the

company that you like and then deal with the finance once you've chosen the

company rather than choosing a heat pump installer who can offer you a preferred

method of payment. That's the problem main problem is like you know a lot of companies

that are doing free interest but the money they're charging way over yeah yeah

when you have a new mortgage it's very hard to get the loans and everything

you know that's a problem. No I understand but I'll tell you what do some research in the

meantime yeah and then yeah I'll come and see you on Monday and we'll go from

there. Yeah please can you drop the email so then I can have a remember. I'll do it straight away.

I'll do it straight away. Okay okay on Monday please remind me if I'm somewhere

struck also I'll be on time to my home then yeah. Perfect well what I'll do is

I'll just send you a text on Monday morning saying hi I'll be with you

between three and four this afternoon. Thank you thank you. Is it free of cost?

I don't want to waste and cause any problem. No no I'm coming to have a look.

It's free. May I know who I'm speaking to? the adviser. the adviser okay thanks the adviser.

Thanks fam. See you on Monday then. See you on Monday. Thank you.

Hello? [name]? Yes. [name], my name is the adviser. I'm the Air Source Heat Pump Assessment

Manager for the installer in [town]. Oh, right. Okay. How are you? You all right?

Okay, yeah. I've been looking at heat pumps for a while and the thing is that I don't have solar

panels. Sorry, I don't have solar panels, which is something that I've wanted to do,

and I'm not sure I should get solar panels first. Or does it matter?

Would you mind, [name]? I'm from [town]. It looks like you are as well. Would you mind if

I just spoke frankly with you and honest? That would be pretty much how I like to speak to

customers. Is that all right? Yes, yeah.

Don't bother with solar. Honestly, don't bother. If you can put a heat pump in that's good enough,

you don't need solar. Solar costs a lot of money. The return on investment is a long,

long time before you get your money back. It's going to help you a little bit more with bills,

but if you put a heat pump in that's good enough, it takes you away from gas. You get a far more

efficient central heating system. You're taking advantage of a seven and a half thousand pound

government grant and you'll save a lot if you put in the right stuff anyway. So just to tell you

what my setup is at home, I've got a Mitsubishi, which is what I'll be recommending to you as well.

I've come away from gas. I am all electric and then my bills have come down by about 40 percent

at some point in the future. I'll probably put a battery in, but I'm not going to bother with

panels. They're just too expensive. There's never going to be a grant on solar. They've already

done that. The grant will always be there on a heat pump, but it'll come down at some point

and that's the one that by law you'll have to do. So if I were you, I'd put the heat pump in as long

as it's right and suitable for the home, as long as you find a firm that you like and a price

that's fair. Then if you want to do solar at some point in the future, the price might come down,

but costs have increased again for solar. So what's your priority? Is it about reducing your

bills? Is it about being greener? What's your thought process, [name]? Both of those things,

but I've got a fairly new boiler. It's only about two and a half years old, but I was just looking

to, because I've got space down the side of my house and it was when I saw that you were putting

in EBAC, because I've looked at a lot of companies and a lot of different heat pumps,

because you were saying about EBAC. Well, I've got a couple of really good EBAC products,

but when you say about Mitsubishi and you're saying that your preference is for them,

it's just that because EBAC are a really good UK company and I really think their products are

great. I just thought, well, that was just my, as soon as I saw it, I thought I've got to just get

in touch just because I saw that. We can install quite a few different ones. So a lot of people

like the idea of putting the EBAC in because it's an English company and we are an installer

who can install the EBAC heat pump. It's a similar price to the Mitsubishi. We can also fit

Valent, Samsung, Midia. We can install quite a few. We're not like what most other installers

are and that's that they're sort of contracted to one. We can install pretty much whatever you want.

Um, it just comes down to what's best for the house. So for example, with EBAC, they offer

a five kilowatt heat pump and a nine kilowatt heat pump. If your heat loss is like four kilowatts,

brilliant, put the five in. But if your heat loss is like six kilowatts, the nine's probably

going to be too big and it will cycle. Um, with the Mitsubishi, they do a five, six,

eight and a half, 11.2 and 14. So there's just a bigger range in terms of what's the better heat

pump. EBAC's a good heat pump and whilst we can install both Mitsubishi and EBAC, the Mitsubishi

is just, it is a better system. It's manufactured in Derbyshire. So although it's not an English

company, it's made just around the corner. It's very easy to control and support and source parts

for. So, you know, if someone said to me, what heat pump would you rather choose? Midia or

Mitsubishi? I would like the idea of EBAC being an English company, but I would also rather have

the best central heating installed in my house as possible. Um, it's completely up to you.

Do, do I know that you said that you offer, um, a year's guarantee?

Uh, it's so basically regardless of the heat pump, it's a two year workmanship warranty.

It's then seven years on the heat pump and then 25 years on the hot water cylinder.

It's all right. I'm just writing this down. No problem. Um, you say it's, uh, regardless of, uh,

the heat pump, it's, um, it's, uh, did you say it was a two years warranty? Two year workmanship

warranty. So that's just what we would come back and do. Yeah. Seven year manufacturer warranty.

Yeah. Seven year manufacturer warranty for the heat pump. Yeah. And 25 year manufacturer warranty

for the hot water cylinder. Right. Okay. Right. Inevitably I'll have to come and look at the

house and you're only around the corner. Whereabouts are you off to? I'm just, um, on, uh,

mid hill road, which is just, um, just down from Healy city farm. So it's, it's, it's not far at

all. Yeah, I know. I've been there with the kids. All right. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I'm going to be,

um, I'm trying to think, um, uh, I work from home about half the time. Well,

a lot of the time now, cause I work at Hallam. So, um, um, um, I, I mean, I, I mean like lots

of odd times I'm, I'm working from about half, half two till half five, but, uh, but yeah, so,

um, I'll tell you what I'll do. We don't have a sales operation here, [name]. We are, we're heat

pump engineers. So, you know, if you wanted someone to turn up in a nice car and a suit with

a laptop to sell you a heat pump, it's not going to be me. Um, if you wanted someone who you can

trust to install a central heating system, well, so you only have to do it once. Um, then it's,

then it is me. There's six of us here. We, we, we only employ heat pump engineers by trade.

Um, if you look at our reviews, every single one is five stars and that's because

we're not selling anything. We were just giving honest expert advice.

We will only do what's best for the house. Obviously we're flexible and we want to do

what you want to do, but we will be very clear in saying what is the right thing to do.

And if you do like us and you do move forward, you'll find that works and ships are the highest

quality because of who we are and how long we've been doing this. Um, but what's really important

is that whilst we're a smaller firm, we can install these systems for quite a bit less

than what these bigger sort of energy firms are doing now. Realistically speaking, wherever you

are in the world, it's always better to do something locally, especially if it's something

like a central heating system. So someone can come back quickly if anything doesn't quite go to plan.

Oh yeah. I mean, as soon as I saw where you were, um, I looked, I, I, I checked you out,

but also I, uh, it was just the fact that you were selling an e-back and that you were local

and that you get really good reviews. And that's like, I thought, cause I have looked at a lot and

I just thought, right. Okay. We might have found money. Yeah. Okay. How, how, how it works with us.

I'm just going to ask you a few questions, [name], and I'm going to give you a price.

Um, we, we don't send like these sales reps to the house to then give you a cost. Everyone can

give you a price now, but they don't want to because they'd rather get someone there

to try and persuade you. We don't do any of that. I'll give you a price. If you think,

no, I don't. Thanks. But no, thanks. Then we've not wasted any time. And then you just move on

to the next one. Um, and then if you think fair enough, I'll come, I'll have a look that bit's

completely free. And then depending on what I suggest upon home assessment, I will then advise

whether or not it's worth moving to the next bit, which would be for a professional heat loss survey

to be done, which will allow us to tell you exactly what works involved. And then you definitely know

what you're saying. Yes or no to work out what's best for the house. Definitely. Definitely. Cause

I'd love to know if I've got to change radiators and stuff, that's, that's a big deal.

Absolutely. What, what you'll find with most of the firms, especially the others in [town]. So

the only other local ones to you really are error. You'll have seen them. I imagine

they're based in [town]. They're a massive Swedish company. Um, they put their own heat

pump in, but they're really expensive. Um, and then you've got purer flown. They, they do install

Mitsubishi, but not e-back. Um, and they're starting prices about 4,000 pounds more than

ours. And I know it's not all about costs. We want to make sure it's done properly, but also

we do install the premium systems like Mitsubishi and e-back. So all I'd need to know from you

really, [name], I've got, let's have a look and see if I can find you one line. S two three G U.

Yeah. Yeah. How many people live at the house, [name]? Uh, just me. Just you. And what number

middle road did you say? 35. 35. I've found you. So it says here enter his property.

Um, yes, it's a semi. It's one of those really ugly 30 semi. Yeah. But he's got like, um, I've

got an extension on the side, uh, a large extension. And, um, so it's, it's, uh, it's, um,

it's got probably another couple of rooms than the bog standard boxy 30 semi. Okay. When did you

have the extension done? [name]? Um, 2005. Okay. Right. So what I'm looking at now will be,

will be accurate. Um, so it says here 109 square meters. It says here, so in terms of insulation,

I can see that you've got fully double glazed windows. Um, in terms of the walls, is it cavities,

but not filled? Is that right? As far as you're aware, [name], or have they been filled?

Well, uh, because the cavities in these 30s houses are very, very small,

they've been filled with a really, really small, uh, polystyrene, uh, pellet, you know,

a really tiny one. So it was kind of, um, one design for this kind of thing at the front.

I don't think there's anything much in the back because there's hardly any,

there just wasn't any real need for it. It's very, it's a very warm cozy house. So it's like,

all right, lovely. I think what you're probably looking at then, obviously the heat loss survey

is absolutely the most important bit. And that is the only way that if you do that,

I'll be able to tell you for sure the heat pump size and for sure what radiators if any need to

be changed. Um, but until then I can tell you that if I did 109 multiplied by let's have a look at

an average cavity cavity wall filled you value. I think your heat loss is going to be about six

kilowatts. So you'll need either a six or an eight and a half kilowatt system. So whether you have

the media five or the media nine or the Mitsubishi six or the Mitsubishi 8.5, let's let the heat loss

did choose the how, uh, choose the heat pump rather than, rather than just what we want to do.

We want to do what you want to do, but ultimately all we'll do following your heat loss report,

if we get that far is present the facts and then it's up to you where you go from there.

Um, do you have any underfloor heating [name] or is it all, um, radiators? All radiators. Okay. Um,

so you think you've got space for a heat pump? Do you think you've got space somewhere out

inside for the hot water cylinder [name]? Um,

how big is the hot water cylinder? Sorry. You'll only need like a one 70. So you're talking 1.2

meters in height. Um, unlike it's just over, um, half a meter in diameter. So normally it's the

best place for it to go in the loft. If it's the best place to put it in the loft and that's where

it'll go or in an old airing cupboard, we can pretty much always find somewhere for it. The,

um, there's, um, there's an old airing cupboard, uh, upstairs, but there's an also, also where

I've got my boiler, that's an air that's I've used, uh, an old thirties airing cupboard that

was built when the house worked for the copper cylinder. So I've, I've actually, I've actually

rescued one of those from skip and that's where my current boiler is. And it's down in the,

the, the back room downstairs. That might be just fine. That, that might be just fine. So

looking from what I'm looking at, again, we turn jobs down left, right, and center,

um, because they shouldn't be installed too. But from the conversation we're having,

from what I can see online, it's certainly the right kind of house to install a heat pump too.

Um, it's just wrong of me to tell you exactly what you need at this point, because maths and

science is far better to determine that rather than just me speculating. Honestly, I almost fell

out of love with the game. A couple of years ago, everything started changing with the people that

I was working for at the time. It was more sales and cutting corners and cutting costs and not

doing these things properly for the sake of revenue. Um, so what most installers are doing now

is again, instead of us having this conversation and me giving you a price and then coming to do

an assessment as a heat pump engineer, and then maybe even saying no, when we come and see you,

they won't give you a price. They'll send a salesperson. And then to obviously you're more

likely to sign something if you know what works involved. So the salesperson has an app on his

phone and it will take him 15 minutes to do a heat loss survey. And then he can tell you there and

then what needs to happen. Forget that it's the most important bit. If this is going to be done

right from the very start, we bring in a completely separate third party company. That's your first

financial contribution. It costs 200 pounds and they spend probably three hours at the house.

It just means it's done right. And then, you know, for a fact that when I come back to you a couple

of days afterwards and say, this is the heat pump size. This is the number of radiator changes. This

is the final price. It's been done properly. Um, and if you move forward, it's going to be something

that's done once. Um, I think what you're looking at in terms of a cost, we only do radiators at

trade price. So if they need changing instead of charging 250 pounds per radiator change, like

you'll find with most companies, we just want to keep your costs down. So if bedroom one radiator

needs changing and we can find it for 70 quid, that's what, that's what you'll pay. I think what

you're looking at, if it's going to be the EBAC five kilowatts that you need, it would be

4,900 pounds plus radiator changes at the trade price.

If you need the Mitsubishi, we wouldn't put the five and we'd put the six in. It's a better heat

pump. Um, if you needed the Mitsubishi six kilowatts, it's 4,750 pounds plus radiators at trade price.

If it was the Mitsubishi 8.5, it would be 5,050 pounds plus radiators at trade price.

And then finally, if it was the EBAC nine kilowatt, it would be 5,000 plus radiators at trade price.

What I will say is each and every one of those prices is at top end. I do have 500 pounds to

play with. We're not one of these companies that's going to sell you a new radiator.

We're not one of those companies that's going to sell you a new radiator. We're not one of those

prices is at top end. I do have 500 pounds to play with. We're not one of these companies that will,

um, you know, hate the conversations that sometimes these companies have where it's,

oh, I've got Mr. And Mrs. Smith here. We've got on really well. And what's the best price we can

do is it's nonsense. So we normally put our best price first, which I have done already.

But, um, while it's a bit warmer and people are thinking less of doing this, obviously,

we're a bit quieter. So just to help us and to help you, there is a maximum discount available

of 500 pounds on every single price I've just given you. Okay.

Okay. And this is, um, uh, this is taking into account the, um, the grant.

Yeah. So, for example, the, the, the, the five kilowatt e-bike that I've quoted so far at four

nine, it's actually 12, four, but less seven and a half thousand leave your contribution at four

nine or best case scenario for four, if I can give the full 500 pound discount. Yeah.

Okay. Well, that's, uh, um, yeah, well, I am definitely interested in, in moving forward

with this and getting to know exactly what it is I need to pay. And, uh, uh, because, um,

I've had, uh, I've had about three boilers in, um, in quite a, I mean, one boiler only lasted

just over two years. I don't know what it was about. It was, it must've been a Friday afternoon

boiler. I don't know when on it. And then, um, and so, uh, but even this new one that I've got,

um, um, which is a record, a really good, like it's, it's leaking. I don't know if it's something

to do with the water pressure, but then it's an enclosed system, isn't it? Yeah.

I think what it comes to is because of how the two systems work. So with a heat pump,

it takes the house just a little bit longer to get to temperature, but then it just stays there

all day. So there's no rising and falling. It's just a consistent ambient temperature.

Whereas if you put, if you have gas, it's constantly rising and falling. So that's why

you'll get one to four efficiency from like an evac or a Mitsubishi, but you'll get one to one

with a gas boiler, far more efficient. You'll save about 40% on your bills. Overall, you'll

have a central heating system that if installed properly should last you 30 years, [name].

Um, and then things start to go wrong. So longevity running costs, um, and then obviously

the environmental factors. So it's going to be heat pump. I think the best thing to do,

you've got two choices. And I give this to every single customer spoke to a customer on the phone

the other day. And because of their availability, it was hard to pin a time down for me to go and

see them, but they'd already sort of decided that they liked us. And they just said, well,

let's just get the survey done. So you, I'll say the same to you. I can come to the house and do

a completely free home assessment. And then I will be able to say to you, yeah, definitely let's

spend the 200 quid and find out exactly what works involved, what radiators need changing,

and let's get a final price. Um, or alternatively you can think, well, save your time. I don't,

I'm interested in finding out what works involved. I think I've got space for a cylinder,

but I know I've got space for a heat pump. Um, just crack on with a survey in which case we

will just go straight to survey. I'll leave that completely up to you. Would you rather me come

first or do you? Um, um, um, well, it depends if you can fit it in at all. I mean, because,

uh, because I'm, I'm on holiday now, uh, most of the time, uh, even though I've got some bits and

pieces, but I'm on holiday now. So I've got, I mean, I'm at home a lot of the time now.

Okay. Um, my calendar, I'll tell you what I'll do. If you think it makes, it depends on my

availability against the surveys availability, cause it might well be that I can see you before

them, or it might well be that they can see you before me. Um, I'll give them a call and see when

their availability is and when they can be at the house. And then if they're going to beat me to the

house by like a week, then it probably makes sense just to go straight to survey. Um, but,

um, I'll give, I'll give it every shot for me to come first. Um, I'll give them a call and I'll

get straight back to you, [name]. I won't be long. Okay. That's great. Speak to you very soon, [name].

All right. Thank you. Bye-bye.